Mr Negative

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Posts by Mr Negative

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  38

  We're Ashya Kings parents right?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you remember the case?

  jehovers witness parents did a runner without telling the medical staff caring for their seriously ill child and took him to receive proton therapy in praque as this treatment was not available in the u.k.. first most importantly the good news, the boy was declared cancer free last march.. anyway i am sure at the time this issue would have created a lot of heated debate on the forum, as it was a case that created a media frenzy, with the parents and their jehovers witness religious beliefs being heavily critizised .

  however as i followed the case i couldn't help but admire the parents, as i felt they would have acted indepentedly of both the jehovers witness organisation and the u.k medical advice, having in my opinion seriously thought the matter through, and then doing they thought was the best way for treatment.. so if you remember the case my questions are:-.

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  Mr Negative

  slimboyfat, on what do you base your opinion that the "NHS was wrong?"
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  38

  We're Ashya Kings parents right?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you remember the case?

  jehovers witness parents did a runner without telling the medical staff caring for their seriously ill child and took him to receive proton therapy in praque as this treatment was not available in the u.k.. first most importantly the good news, the boy was declared cancer free last march.. anyway i am sure at the time this issue would have created a lot of heated debate on the forum, as it was a case that created a media frenzy, with the parents and their jehovers witness religious beliefs being heavily critizised .

  however as i followed the case i couldn't help but admire the parents, as i felt they would have acted indepentedly of both the jehovers witness organisation and the u.k medical advice, having in my opinion seriously thought the matter through, and then doing they thought was the best way for treatment.. so if you remember the case my questions are:-.

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  Mr Negative

  No, krejames, I'm not suggesting that the NHS is correct 100% of the time...but how can you ever know they're wrong? (Until, possibly, after the event.) How could you be certain that another country was "more right," enough to risk putting a life in danger just in case? And why expect the NHS to go against its own decision, and then get put out when it doesn't?
  
  Anyway, I'm probably coming across as more callous than I really am. It was a horrible situation for the parents, the child and the rest of the family. I wish all of them well, and I hope I am never in that situation. But the OP question was, were the parents right to do what they did? The evidence suggests the simple answer is no. But this is the sort of situation when people are unfortunately ruled by emotion and prejudice, rather than logic, so errors in judgement will be made. Treatment was delayed or withheld, when having that treatment would have improved chances of recovery, and the boy now has a reduced chance of a favourable outcome, as Cofty has already detailed.
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  38

  We're Ashya Kings parents right?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you remember the case?

  jehovers witness parents did a runner without telling the medical staff caring for their seriously ill child and took him to receive proton therapy in praque as this treatment was not available in the u.k.. first most importantly the good news, the boy was declared cancer free last march.. anyway i am sure at the time this issue would have created a lot of heated debate on the forum, as it was a case that created a media frenzy, with the parents and their jehovers witness religious beliefs being heavily critizised .

  however as i followed the case i couldn't help but admire the parents, as i felt they would have acted indepentedly of both the jehovers witness organisation and the u.k medical advice, having in my opinion seriously thought the matter through, and then doing they thought was the best way for treatment.. so if you remember the case my questions are:-.

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  Mr Negative

  However, The Rebel, if you rather mean, given the assumption that the NHS was wrong and the parents' way was the only way to get the requisite treatment, COULD I have done similar, then yes, I could have done what they did.
  But those are some pretty big assumptions.
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  38

  We're Ashya Kings parents right?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you remember the case?

  jehovers witness parents did a runner without telling the medical staff caring for their seriously ill child and took him to receive proton therapy in praque as this treatment was not available in the u.k.. first most importantly the good news, the boy was declared cancer free last march.. anyway i am sure at the time this issue would have created a lot of heated debate on the forum, as it was a case that created a media frenzy, with the parents and their jehovers witness religious beliefs being heavily critizised .

  however as i followed the case i couldn't help but admire the parents, as i felt they would have acted indepentedly of both the jehovers witness organisation and the u.k medical advice, having in my opinion seriously thought the matter through, and then doing they thought was the best way for treatment.. so if you remember the case my questions are:-.

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• 

  Mr Negative

  I can empathise with the emotional state of the parents, as the whole thing must have been a really traumatic experience, but I do not appreciate their holding the NHS to ransom. That the NHS gave in to their demands is a shame, as, incorrectly reported, it makes it look like the NHS were wrong, which destroys faith and trust in it. However, the fact that the NHS did shows that they had the best interests of the child in mind, and that they were no longer prepared to argue over treatment when, at the end of the day, some treatment was better than none.
  I imagine that the parents thought they also had the child's best interests in mind, but they were misguided, something that comes all too easily to JWs, who are taught that they have special knowledge and know better than everybody else, those who are controlled by Satan and only out to get them.
  I know that the blood issue was raised originally, but I don't think this case had anything to do with that, as, apparently, the father suggested he would allow blood if necessary. However, I do believe other JW psychological factors played a role in their poor decision-making.

  I WOULD not, and personally COULD not, have done something similar, as I trust those who know better than I do, and I weigh all of the evidence first, not assume there is some big conspiracy by the NHS to boost or protect egos rather than care for patients. The NHS has its issues, I'll admit, but they are there to their damnedest to protect lives, even of those who maybe don't deserve it (though that is a completely different debate), so this boy's treatment would not have been decided on a whim.
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  38

  We're Ashya Kings parents right?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you remember the case?

  jehovers witness parents did a runner without telling the medical staff caring for their seriously ill child and took him to receive proton therapy in praque as this treatment was not available in the u.k.. first most importantly the good news, the boy was declared cancer free last march.. anyway i am sure at the time this issue would have created a lot of heated debate on the forum, as it was a case that created a media frenzy, with the parents and their jehovers witness religious beliefs being heavily critizised .

  however as i followed the case i couldn't help but admire the parents, as i felt they would have acted indepentedly of both the jehovers witness organisation and the u.k medical advice, having in my opinion seriously thought the matter through, and then doing they thought was the best way for treatment.. so if you remember the case my questions are:-.

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  Mr Negative

  If you're worried about quality of life, you don't drag a sick child halfway round Europe, delaying vital and necessary treatment, just to try to prove you know better. That reminds me of a certain JW teaching (that all of the world is suffering just to prove that God knows better), and it is certainly not the right thing to do.
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  10

  Evolution is a Fact #14 - Joey Goes to Oz

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  australia is home to 223 species of marsupial.. lacking a womb our mammalian cousins give birth to their young at a very early stage of development and then nurse them to maturity.

  female marsupials also have 3 vaginas but that is another thread.. the earliest fossils of marsupials are not to be found in australia however but in north america 80 million years ago.

  their journey can be followed south all the way to the tip of south america 40 million years ago and then they suddenly turn up in australia 30 million years ago.. so where were joey's ancestors during the missing 10 million years and how did they manage to get to australia?.

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  Mr Negative

  How anyone can ever deny that evolution is a fact, with all of this evidence and more, can only come down to ignorance, wilful or otherwise...
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  38

  We're Ashya Kings parents right?

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you remember the case?

  jehovers witness parents did a runner without telling the medical staff caring for their seriously ill child and took him to receive proton therapy in praque as this treatment was not available in the u.k.. first most importantly the good news, the boy was declared cancer free last march.. anyway i am sure at the time this issue would have created a lot of heated debate on the forum, as it was a case that created a media frenzy, with the parents and their jehovers witness religious beliefs being heavily critizised .

  however as i followed the case i couldn't help but admire the parents, as i felt they would have acted indepentedly of both the jehovers witness organisation and the u.k medical advice, having in my opinion seriously thought the matter through, and then doing they thought was the best way for treatment.. so if you remember the case my questions are:-.

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• 

  Mr Negative

  They were most definitely not right. They were reckless and put Ashya's life in danger. They held the NHS to ransom to get the treatment they wanted, and in the process, put Ashya's life at risk. Ashya already had a good chance of recovery as long as he was treated soon. The parents delayed this treatment in their attempts to force the NHS into paying for a more expensive treatment which had no guaranteed benefits over and above the treatment he would have gotten in the UK anyway. The NHS only allowed them to have the alternative treatment in the end to prevent the parents from delaying any treatment any longer. As well as the fact that the negative media coverage sort of forced their hand. But the fact that the alternative treatment worked is not evidence that the original treatment would not have worked just as well. The parents unnecessarily delayed treatment because they, with little medical knowledge, believed they knew better (I'm sure a hang-up from their know-it-all JW indoctrination), and the NHS had to come to the rescue, costing them more than was necessary....at OUR expense.
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  33

  Congrats to Kim Mikey!

  by awake!watcher in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  congrats to kim mikey, mike and kim reached 3000 subscribers on their youtube channel!

  go check em out!

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  Mr Negative

  Simon, that's all very well and good, but if someone's opinion is demonstrably wrong, then it is perfectly ok to call them out on it.
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  47

  Songs celebrating leaving the faith? Not being a puppet, mind controlled, living life, etc etc

  by aley63 in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  i am looking for some songs that are in ref to celebrating leaving, seeing the light, realizing what you were told wasnt right, being happy w your life, etc etc.

  all those emotions about being controlled and repressed, being told what you can feel or think or how to live, blindly following the "brotherhood ".

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  Mr Negative

  Apologies for the poor phrasing in my previous message...it didn't look like that before I posted it :-(

  You (you, you)

  Were my oppressor

  And I (I, I)

  I have been programmed to obey

  And now (now, now)

  You are my handler

  And I (I, I)

  I will execute your demands

  I must disassociate from you

  My trance formation

  And you (you, you)

  Are empowered to do as you please
  

  My mind (mind, mind)

  Was lost in translation

  And my heart (heart, heart)

  Has become a cold and impassive machine

  I must disassociate from you

  And I will no longer do as I am told

  And I am no longer afraid to walk alone

  Let me go

  Let me be

  I'm escaping from your grip

  You will never own me again
  
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  47

  Songs celebrating leaving the faith? Not being a puppet, mind controlled, living life, etc etc

  by aley63 in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  i am looking for some songs that are in ref to celebrating leaving, seeing the light, realizing what you were told wasnt right, being happy w your life, etc etc.

  all those emotions about being controlled and repressed, being told what you can feel or think or how to live, blindly following the "brotherhood ".

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  Mr Negative

  The Handler by Muse...
  
  You (you, you)Were my oppressorAnd I (I, I)I have been programmed to obey
  And now (now, now)You are my handlerAnd I (I, I)I will execute your demands
  Leave me aloneI must disassociate from you
  Behold (hold, hold)My trance formationAnd you (you, you)Are empowered to do as you please
  My mind (mind, mind)Was lost in translationAnd my heart (heart, heart)Has become a cold and impassive machine
  Leave me aloneI must disassociate from you
  I won't let you control my feelings anymoreAnd I will no longer do as I am toldAnd I am no longer afraid to walk aloneLet me goLet me beI'm escaping from your gripYou will never own me again
  
  Not just the lyrics, but the way it's sung.....wow...